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Club Penguin Wiki:Council/Archive February 16 2013

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(1) 2013 Outlook

One of the reasons why we don't really get things done or things are unorganized is because we don't have goals set. At the next meeting, we should discuss:

  • The good things that happened in 2012 that contributed to the wiki's success, and perhaps previous years as well.
  • The bad things that happened in 2012 and before that did not benefit the wiki.
  • Possible remedies to those problems, if there is a chance of it being successful.
  • What brings in readers/users, and what drives them out? Think of, if you were a Club Penguin player, what would attract you to this website, and what would not?
  • Plan for 2013. What things can we possibly accomplish that would make us more open to Club Penguin fans.

Most importantly, whatever we plan, we should make an effort to get done. --LordMaster96 05:08, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Comments

  • I think this is a great idea. I watched a video on the makings of success yesterday (don't worry, I didn't actually want to) and it makes a lot of sense. It explains why and how Apple was a success and Tivo wasn't, even though they both have great ideas. You start by focusing on why you are doing something. You then think of how you can put this idea to action. Finally, you decide what you want to do. Unsuccessful companies go what, how, why." We need to go "why, how, what." The way the guy explained it was kind of difficult to remember, so I'll give a link to anyone who wants it. -ShrimpPin 14:08, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

(2) Update to the Other Block Policy

This was changed a year ago but I feel it's a little bit vague. Maybe add in, "a majority of administrators with at least one bureaucrat approving of the block". The way it's written out currently makes it sound like one bureaucrat can pass a block. At least, that's what confused me at first. --LordMaster96 05:08, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Comments

  • Agreed. -ShrimpPin 14:08, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

(3) Wiki IRC Games Channel

Bring back the fun from 2009. This was brought up by Hat Pop to me via IRC, and I think it should be worthy of a chat to see if we should bring it back. Some of our users may not be interested in having "fun" happening on our wiki IRC channel and treats it as if it's for help/general discussion only, which ends up to be off-topic chat, and we can never have any actual "fun" on that channel without ever being told to stop being annoying. So, why don't we just have a separate channel for this? --LordMaster96 07:10, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Comments

  • Great idea. I, of course, wasn't there, but it sounds pretty neat. -ShrimpPin 14:08, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
  • Trivia bots, madlibs clean edition --Tux (*** SERVICE NOTIFICATION *** clubpenguinwiki.info IS UP) 01:52, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
  • Do you, by any luck, mean using a command in the bot to play games? (Like CPWN Related trivia?) -Vicyorus 02:57, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

(4) Penguin of the Month Retirement

Penguin of the Month was once one of the most loved things on this wiki. Look at it now. We get like, one or two nominations a month and barely anyone votes. I hate to say it, and it sounds crazy, but I think we should retire it sometime soon. Maybe temporarily, maybe permanently. It's become one of those things that aren't even thought about as often as before. This reminds me of Picture of the Day/Week or whichever it was from 2006-2009. It was great at first, but it got neglected as time went on. This POTM project has gone on for a good 4 or 5 years. That's pretty long for a wiki project like this. So, I'm interested in hearing what you guys think. Am I crazy or do you guys agree? --$harkbate Talk Page 05:11, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Comments

  • We brought this up last year and it caused a lot of outrage. To be honest here, I would prefer having this project depart at least temporarily. Our wiki faces one problem: everyone agrees to something and nobody helps make it successful. If that's the case, what is the point in keeping it? I would wait until we have more users before considering bringing this back. --LordMaster96 05:21, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
  • I guess you're right. It seems to always be the same people winning it, anyway. -ShrimpPin 12:41, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
  • If it goes away temporarily my answer is yes. If it goes away permanently then no. I do think we should wait until we get more users (Hopefully ones that don't edit once a year or ones that don't only edit their user pages.) I honestly don't know why if it goes away forever I'm against it. I've always kinda been like that. A7XRev On the 12th day of Christmas the wiki gave to me...

(5) Closing Shops and moving to TropicalWikis

Oppose me all you want here, but Shops seems to have failed after years of trying to succeed and now seems to be a playground for only a couple of CPW users and a major cause for drama. I therefore suggest its closure and moving to TropicalWikis, which seems to be their universal dumping ground for anything they don't dump on the CPWN. --Tux (*** SERVICE NOTIFICATION *** clubpenguinwiki.info IS UP) 01:58, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Comments

  • I'm against this. It's really the only enjoyable place left on the CPWN, since missions, stories, etc. were banned from here, and Fanon is just a huge mess, especially with continuity and stuff. --Chill57181 Talk to me Master of the pencil Come to my party! 02:12, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
    • Fun is a factor. However, that is not the main point I'm trying to push. It's mainly how we can include the fun without another wiki-mess, and shops seems to have came out as a prime example as a wiki-mess. Even I still don't understand shops much. --Tux (*** SERVICE NOTIFICATION *** clubpenguinwiki.info IS UP) 02:18, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
  • No, just no. The "fun" alternatives on this network are Ideas, which is inactive, and Fanon, which is way too strict to be "fun". Shops allows users to interact on another level than Fanon and Ideas. We go out of our way to make it the friendliest environment on the network. There's just Brook and CK some people that constantly have to argue or disturb the peace. Get rid of the X-Factor and Shops would be like a utopia. -- TheBroMaster Talk to me! 04:17, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
    • You're right about Fanon. With TS there, who bans you if you have different beliefs than him, throws rampages when he doesn't get his way etc. it's just not that enjoyable. --Chill57181 Talk to me Master of the pencil Come to my party! 16:53, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
      • Meh, TS is not THAT bad, but he does revert/delete everything he doesn't like or stuff that offends him, but not anyone else. Then all the other admins have to revert it back. --Proud to be Estonian! Snowstormer Here's a random message for you to enjoy! 17:05, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
  • Several things to consider. 1) If we close and all goes back to CPW, it would be too much for us to bear without implementing a whole set of policies that would impose restrictions. 2) If we move it to TW, we run the risk of losing users, something we're trying to avoid right now. 3) If we decide to do a bit of both, it would just be a mess. I'd rather just have to Shops remain as is. It's not like that wiki is inactive or anything like that. Besides, what have the staff done to support that community? Absolutely nothing. --LordMaster96 04:48, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
    • Agreed, the staff has rarely helped to support the community, and if they have, nothing much has changed. --Proud to be Estonian! Snowstormer Here's a random message for you to enjoy! 14:36, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
  • No! You haven't been on the CPS for a while. It's MUUUUCH more active than some other wikis (*cough* Fanon *cough*), and the drama has stopped a while ago. There are a few small, yes, small fights arguements at places but it's mostly fine. So no moving. --Proud to be Estonian! Snowstormer Here's a random message for you to enjoy! 14:36, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
  • Just leave shops in it it's own little world... But IMO, Bro (Brook's actually been a lot better since bro's become b-crat) some people make it so that shops isn't fun... That's one of the reasons I left, because of "some people" being to bossy and treating me & definitely djf some people like crap. Cp kid Wanna Talk? 22:23, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
  • With that i'd like to basically state that there should be a change of "leadership", since Mario is kind of inactive, and Bro is just not socially fit to be a leader (he always makes fun of Djf, and treats "some people"-me, brook, etc. like crap whenever he feels like it). So my personal suggestion would be have a staff member "reside"/be "leader" of shops and find who he/she thinks are the right people to take care of the wiki. Cp kid Wanna Talk? 22:23, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
  • I'm staying neutral on this. I don't have a good reason to stay active because I don't get any customers, but on the other hand we should keep the wiki. {{SUBST:Starsiggy}} 09:47, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
  • I am one of the users of the Polish CP forum Maybe I can somehow encourage them. ~Radykiel from Rady'mall
  • Ooookay... A few months later, this "playground for only a couple of CPW users and a major cause for drama" has gotten a lot more activity from several more users, and there's barely any drama anymore. Not even Brook and CK stuff. --Chill57181 Talk to me Master of the pencil Come to my party! 17:34, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

(6) Users Overrule Veto

As we've seen from the last council meeting, the department idea was largely accepted by the community, however, bureaus who did not like the idea vetoed against it, and nearly removed the department idea. Right now, the bureaus aren't even active in the community and weren't present in the last meeting. To prevent ideas that are widely accepted by the community from being vetoed, if more than half of the community is against the veto, the veto is overruled. --ClubPenguinMaster • Talk 20:37, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Comments

  • I think that's a great way to balance power. -ShrimpPin 22:55, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
  • Yes. That would be great. --Proud to be Estonian! $ṇỗẘ$ŧᴼՐṃȩř <-- This signature has an error with encoding. 06:23, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
  • I think 'clear majority' would be a better term than 'over half the community', since ±1 or 2 votes can be disputed. And besides, voter turnout isn't always 100%. Apart from that, I like the idea. --LordMaster96 08:47, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
  • I disagree with this. The balance of power would be affected by this. Bureaucrats have experience, which is why they're trusted with veto power. The votes should at least by a supermajority of 80%.

(7) Drives/Contracts

Our ideas that are voted upon in the community have recently been lacking activity, despite the large community voting for these ideas. To allow these ideas to be active, a page for signatures for users who are willing to spend time in working on these projects should be created. --ClubPenguinMaster • Talk 20:37, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Comments

  • I was just thinking about this. I believe that old suggestions (from many council meetings ago) that have passed but never been enacted should be decided upon in another community vote, because something practical from five months ago might not be today. -ShrimpPin 22:56, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Deadline has passed. There are 8 submissions, and a preferential ballot vote will be held at the next meeting, if happening before Dec 31.

--LordMaster96 20:47, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Comments

  • Idk why this is on here. It should be on a normal wiki vote like the vote for our current logo (from 2009). Cp kid Wanna Talk? 05:24, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

(9) Amendment to Voting Policy change passed on Sept. 15 council

It hasn't been implemented yet so I will take the time to introduce a change to that clause. I think it was a bit harsh so I'll put it this way (yes I'm being vague on purpose).

Here are the provisions apparently passed on Sept. 15:

  • To vote, you must meet at least two of the three requirements below:
    • Make at least 50 mainspace edits within the last three months.
    • Attend and vote on at least three topics in the last council meeting.
    • Have not been blocked for a Category I policy violation in the last three months.
  • Exemptions: rollbacks, patrollers, administrators, bureaucrats, and staff members.

Maybe we should change it so that:

  • If you have 50 mainspace all-time edits and you have a good level of activity in the last few months you can vote without question.
  • If you haven't been involved with the wiki for an extended period of time (i.e. 6 months or more) an admin majority ruling will determine whether or not you can vote.
  • Only current and former administrators, bureaucrats and staff are exempt.

--LordMaster96 20:47, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Comments

  • The council thing is still kinda bad. Some users may not be allowed on IRC and so can't attend, some may not be able to attend the council due to time zone differences. Since we usually have the council at the same times, it's kinda bad to some users. So yes, the council is way to harsh. --Proud to be Estonian! $ṇỗẘ$ŧᴼՐṃȩř <-- This signature has an error with encoding. 13:15, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

(10) CPWN Hub

I've recently noticed that the CPWN needs a hub, or a place that's the absolute and neutral center of all the sites the CPWN offers. Right now, the CPW seems to be the hub of operations, which makes users come here and nowhere else. If they were all attracted to the hub, then they'd see equal interest in all our sites. -- TheBroMaster Talk to me! 17:32, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Comments

  • The last time we tried it, it didn't work out too well. Tux (*** SERVICE NOTIFICATION *** clubpenguinwiki.info IS UP) 05:42, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
  • The only thing I can think of when I hear this is Community Central on Wikia. And that wiki is mainly for help, announcement of any network stuff, but not mainly for socializing. Seems pretty pointless on the CPWN to me. --LordMaster96 20:33, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
  • I like this idea too :P Cp kid Wanna Talk? 05:08, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

(11) Custom logo reform

I have noticed we put up custom logos way too often, even for wiki events. We should discuss ways to prevent having periods of almost 4 weeks where we have custom logos back to back without seeing our normal logo. --Seahorseruler (Talk Page) (Contribs) 08:53, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Comments

  • I haven't seen this being an issue in the past, but yes, I now see why it could be problematic. I think we should have a logo submission for: New Years Day, Valentine's Day OR St. Patrick's Day, April Fool's Day, Canada/Independence Day, The Fair, Halloween, US Thanksgiving and Christmas. I would add Canadian Thanksgiving but stats show that there are few Canadian readers, and it would be awkward having two Thanksgiving logos, so I would just stick with the USA. --LordMaster96 20:31, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
  • I HIGHLY disagree. Two reasons: One we are a CP Wiki, and we should stick with CLUB PENGUIN Events. Our regular logo is kinda boring. The party ones are more attractive. Number 2: We are trying to keep the community with us. We need community projects to do so, and Logo Submissions are very popular. -- Brookelas Mastered the EL EM ENTS! 23:40, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
  • Not everyone playing CP will celebrate events like Thanksgiving and Canada Day (I am an example), so I don't think we should have a special logo designed for them. --Dps04talk | Mall 03:38, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
    • I agree. Same with 4th of July *cough*Sea and Tux*cough*. We seem to go over-the-top and super extravagant for an event only 1 nation celebrates. -- TheBroMaster Talk to me! 12:47, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
  • Not everyone is from the U.S. and not everyone wants to celebrate American holiday 15:47, 12 February 2013 (UTC)~RADYKIEL

(12) Stop watering down galleries

A variety of images on the page helps increase its Google ranking. Some users have been moving most of the gallery to "Gallery of _____" pages, and others have been just removing most or all of the galleries completely without putting them on another page. This hasn't been authorized by a vote, a Bureaucrat, or the community. We should work to undo all of this damage before our Google rankings are impacted. Since everyone is so worried about length (even though article length shouldn't matter): on room articles, we can move party images out of galleries and into their own section called "Parties" with a collapsible gallery that will display 15 - 20 images by default, with the rest collapsed. --Seahorseruler (Talk Page) (Contribs) 08:53, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Comments

  • Yes. Articles look better with pictures. :) --LordMaster96 20:26, 23 December 2012 (UTC)\
  • Sea, Gallery of the Coffee Shop and Gallery of the Town are the only ones right now. Also, I asked nando (since he's the article Department head + admin) if it was allowed but he never messaged back. In addition, it's not the page length that's an issue. It's the fact that it looks kind of weird with over 40 images; however i'm all for collapsible galleries :) Cp kid Wanna Talk? 01:31, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

(13) Get stuff straight about rarity

Okay, on a lot of item pages the rarity is waaaaay outdated, like stuff from 2008 is still considered uncommon? C'mon it was like almost 5 years ago, it's rare. And stuff from 2009 is still common? I don't think so. So yea, we should discuss on when stuff is actually called rare and when common. --Proud to be Estonian! $ṇỗẘ$ŧᴼՐṃȩř <-- This signature has an error with encoding. 18:10, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Comments

  • I've been down this road many times before Cylly. Here are some past messages about it. From those messages, I would assume that NOW it would be something along the lines of- 2008 or July 2008 and earlier are rare. From there until mid-2010 is uncommon, and the rest is normal. We should really make a page with rarity "standards", though and update it once or twice per year. Cp kid Wanna Talk? 15:55, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
  • "Hi LM96. I'm sorry for wasting your time with the "rarity" thing, I just thought they were rare, even if the're from 2008, because the Blue Mail Bag is on the list, and it was from 2008 also. So if you could tell me why that's on there, and the others aren't, I would appreciate it. Cp kid 02:00, 9 December 2010 (UTC)"
  • "It's okay. Everybody makes mistakes. You probably don't know, but we discussed the rarity issue. Any item besides party hats and pins is classified rare if it's last released in 2007 or before. If it's 2008 or before it's uncommon, and it's not rare if it's in 2009/2010. --LordMaster96 Happy Holidays 06:11, 9 December 2010 (UTC)"
  • "Hey LM96! It's me again about the "Rarity" page. Once 2011 starts, won't items from '08 bacome "rare"? Cp kid 03:06, 10 December 2010 (UTC)"
  • "Maybe not right away on January 1, 2011, but I'll let you know when I have a chance to ask others on what they think. --LordMaster96 Happy Holidays 04:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)"
  • "Hi LM. Do items become rare by month? Like right now the items from Mar. '08 and back are rare, but next month the items from Apr. '08 and back will be rare? Sorry if i'm confusing you. Also, can furniture items be rare? Fancy LeprecanI want me pot o' gold..And an award! 01:56, 10 March 2011 (UTC)"
  • "I don't think we have done it by using months before, but we did split 2007 half a year over rare/uncommon. And also, yes, you can classify furniture items as rare. Just follow the same idea as items. --LordMaster96<staff /> 03:24, 10 March 2011 (UTC)"
  • "2 things. 1. So all items from the 1st half of '08 are rare? 2. What happened to the "You Have new messages" bar? Fancy LeprecanI want me pot o' gold..And an award! 12:57, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
  • "For this year, make the items from Jan-Mar. 2008 rare, not quite the first half. And there's some owa problem on the wiki, so that's why the new messages button is gone. --LordMaster96<staff /> 14:47, 10 March 2011 (UTC)"
  • This is a very time-consuming idea, but it would be very easy to update rarity statuses if every item was placed in a category such as "Items from 2005" and so on. I'm not this advanced with technology, but I'm pretty sure someone would be able to change the rarity template on every page in each category automatically. We could create "uncommon" and "common" templates as well. Just a suggestion. -ShrimpPin 17:46, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
  • I now believe we should just remove rarity altogether. Rarity isn't something set by CP. It's based on our very own opinions, and can be considered biased. Something we might consider rare might not be rare in someone else's view. --LordMaster96 19:20, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
    • Now that I think about it, I completely agree. It would be very easy to "remove" the template from every page it's on simply by erasing content from the actual template page. -Reeze 23:41, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

(14) Enable mobile uploading

I don't know if this is possible, but I'd like to be able to upload files via my iPad in certain situations. It could really come in handy, especially with documenting CP's apps and such. -- TheBroMaster Talk to me! 02:39, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Comments

  • Finally, mobile uploading so I can use my GS3 as an uploading device! Yuri102212 Talk Edits 09:10, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
  • Stop obessing over your iDevices and get Android. Tux (*** SERVICE NOTIFICATION *** clubpenguinwiki.info IS UP) 21:20, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
  • Android devices should support uploading from any application: Go to any page in the browser with an upload in the form, Android will prompt you what application to source the file from, such as the gallery of the file manager. --refractor till my head falls off 23:09, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

(15) Partnering on Archives?

Personally, I think that if we had a partnering system on archives like there is here, it would attract more users and ultimately make our comunity bigger. I think a few good people would like to partner with us, but it isn't possible unless we at least try it. The only difference is that the "rules" to find potential partners wouldn't be as strict as CPW's partnering policy. Cp kid Wanna Talk? 05:08, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Comments

(16) Extensions on the chopping block, and globalizing more settings

I am nominating these extensions to be forever removed from the CPWN:

  • AWCforum: Nobody really used the forum a lot, as we had discussion pages.
  • SocialProfile: The only wiki that it's installed on is CPFW.
  • OggHandler: Only on CPFW. The only thing it does is allow for a play button. Seriously?

I also want to take some time and clean up *Settings.php on the wikis. It's a mess, and I need to comb through it with Seahorse and fix it so it's less broken, and perhaps we will find more extensions to remove. --Tux (*** SERVICE NOTIFICATION *** clubpenguinwiki.info IS UP) 20:21, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Comments

(17) Add-on to the party template

I would like to nominate an addition to the party template for easier browsing of month-to-month parties rather than using the large list template. This addition is 2 new sections on the template- a Previous Party and a Next Party section. Links will be used in these sections, obviously, with n/a before the Beta Party and TBA for any upcoming parties we don't know of (like the Next Party section on the Hollywood Party, for example) and so on. I hope you enjoy the idea. --Moochfloatjr (talk) 02:53, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Comments

  • I absolutely love this idea, it will make navigation much better. I fully support this. --Seahorseruler (Talk Page) (Contribs) 02:57, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
  • Love it. I can't believe this is something we've overlooked. -- TheBroMaster Talk to me! 03:56, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

(18) Abolish/Suspend Departments

Most of us wanted it but lack of community involvement in this project resulted in it failing. Vote to temporarily suspend or abolish the project. --LordMaster96 08:08, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Comments

(19) Widget changes

Widgets are pages in a special namespace that allows embedding html into pages like you would with templates. As you may have already heard, shops was injecting/embedding full SWFs into pages without any kind of authorization, which ultimately got them listed by Google as a malicious (or virus containing) website and blacklisted. This is not something we are going to take lightly. Most of the things made with widgets could just as easily be done with wikicode and ImageMap. The plain out abuse of Widgets/html access has forced me to take the following steps:

  • Removal of the widget editor right globally. Too many random and clueless non-admins who liked to abuse html had the "Widget editors" right on shops.
  • Restriction of widget editing to administrators
  • Merged the "Widget editor" right with the "editinterface" right (which may only be given by staff). Having the editinterface right also allows you to edit MediaWiki pages. (Before you complain, if someone can not be trusted to edit MW pages, then why would you give them the ability to inject raw html into pages?)
  • Made clear that SWFs of any kind are not allowed to be used in widgets unless approval from staff is sought first. We will gladly allow you to use a SWF in a widget if you have a valid reason for it.

I want to take further actions that I think we should discuss first. I propose:

  • The creation of a global widget policy, which I will begin drafting now. It will set guidelines on what widgets can/can not be used for.
  • Restricting widget editing to staff and users given the "editinterface" (or Widget editors if we bring it back) right by staff. If we do this, widget creation may be requested by non-staff. This will guarantee that malicious html will not be used without our knowledge, since the "editinterface" right would only be granted to people who know what they are doing.

Please take this into consideration and please make suggestions below. Thanks! --Seahorseruler (Talk Page) (Contribs) 23:36, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Comments

  • I'm truly sorry for making up blacklisted, I didn't know inserting SWFs from SWFCabin would do that. But I won't have to use SWFCabin ever again, because there are sites that are as official as possible (aka Google Sites/Drive). But does that mean we can't even insert CP SWF files or Archives SWF files to widgets? --Proud to be Estonian! $ṇỗẘ$ŧᴼՐṃȩř <-- This signature has an error with encoding. 18:08, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Do music .swf files count? --Chill57181 Talk to me Master of the pencil Come to my party! 19:18, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
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